Hearing But Need Sign Language? Sorry, You Can't Attend Deaf School

That is so messed up. There are too many issues, all at odds with each other. Here are a few of my thoughts, posed as questions:

1. Parents of nonverbal hearing children want more sign language support in regular school programs? What about the deaf children who STILL don’t get such support?

2. Nonverbalness itself has nothing to do with cognitive ability. It’s not possible (or should never be permissible) to quickly point to the fact of nonverbalness as a measure of cognitive ability required for success in any school setting. IQ tests do have what’s called a “non-verbal range” and nonverbal children with normal or superior cognitive abilities test very highly in those ranges. I’m guessing that children with Down syndrome would not test high enough as to warrant inclusion in any school setting where there are children with cognitive abilities that are vastly different from theirs. Maybe in separate classrooms, but overall? What would the benefits truly be?

3. Schools should look to maintain the quality of their teaching–it would probably make more sense to integrate hearing children of deaf adults into deaf schools, on the basis of “language environment.” This should be done only to reform or expand educational programs within their original missions. This applies to both oral programs and sign language programs. Separate alternate communication programs for other types of nonverbal learning should be established. Unfortunately, it’d probably never be considered economically feasible in the public education system, given the myriad problems already present, such as California trying to cut down on bilingual (ESL) education–according to one survey, New York, Texas, and Illinois have approximately 300,000-400,000 ESL students each, while California has over one million! No wonder the state is trying to cut down on costs–bilingual education is generally expensive, especially because of the variety of native languages crossing into traditional English-based education.

4. Who is going to measure or ascertain the quality of sign language used with children that have Down syndrome? Do we even know how well the parents mentioned in that article actually use sign language? How do we know that it’s truly used in its full context, linguistically? Not just as an alternate communicative mode like SEE is? What would this mean for deaf children who use ASL, if programs began mixing different populations of learners, under the guise of “sign language being available”?

Unfortunately, for lawmakers on local, state, and national levels, the bottom line is money. If it seems cost-effective to them (as opposed to getting sued for denying education or other socially “promised” opportunities), they will probably make decisions that are unwise for so many reasons, all of which is known too well by researchers and educators, but not by the very people making these (hasty and uneducated) decisions.

To clarify–the news article says the child was denied signing aides in a regular school setting. The real question would be why?

Money. That’s why. The public school system either wouldn’t or couldn’t comply with ADA regulations, which was ostentiously implemented to prevent such discrimination.

The reluctance to spend extra (or even non-existent) money is the same reason why many deaf children are still denied certified interpreters and other services in public schools; same goes for why some states are slowly shutting down their residential programs and cutting services.

Public education was never about empowering American citizens–it’s always been about maintaining the bottom line in ensuring that citizens turn out to be good soldiers and housewifes, economically complacent enough to defend capitalist values when entrepreneurs need them to. It has been like this for 150 years, at least here in America.

Keep in mind, deviation (social, mental or physical) has always been a burden for capitalists and the image of society that they need to maintain, in order to turn a tidy profit, via a happy and spendthrifty population. Gay men have only succeeded so much in public these few past decades BECAUSE they’ve shown themselves to not be a burden on the economy. The gay world is a self-driven economical success: they pay taxes and can afford fabulous vacations, which is just what capitalists want. Too bad gay people still can’t marry each other, legally (this means no tax cuts or inheritance benefits!).

The No Child Left Behind act is the biggest joke ever to happen to American education. NCLB never was about protecting the education of children. It is clearly designed to reduce funds wherever “legally” possible, and I shudder at the thought of even more disadvantaged populations getting cut out of the promises that ADA and other benevolent (malevolent) laws made. If ADA and NCLB were truly designed to help children in schools, the Miners and their son would be in much better hands (literally!) It truly sucks they have to put up such a fight. If Bush and others were as Christian as they claim to be, this wouldn’t happen, ever. Charity means very little nowadays, especially when it comes to publically funded education.

If Deaf schools were forced to admit nonverbal signers, then it would send out a wrong message which would reinforce the general public’s belief or assumption that Deaf and multi-disabled should be classed/categorized together.

That’s just sad.

I understand the fears and challenges that we might be faced with by letting non-verbal children into schools for the deaf, but I work with a first-grade non-verbal student. He feels very different, depressed and alone. He was able to get together for an afternoon with a dance troupe from a school for the deaf ( high-school age) and these young people made him feel “normal” and welcome. I hope we can find a way to reach these children that (I feel) slip through the cracks.

Wow-

I must say that nobody remembers what happened to a mentally retarded girl whose parents won a lawsuit against FSDB. After allowing their daughter to enroll. While legal wringling, FSDB argued that those kind of disabilities do require an extra trained staff to handle those type of behavioral-intervention..such and such. Well, that girl was the first non-verbal student to go in and the first to die due to scalding shower. I must say, I applaud that the parents lost and the court reconized that there is no place to add burden to include deafness as ‘behavioral group’.

I think that regular public schools should be made to provide the nonspeaking children, that can haer, with sign language. I am HOH and tried to go to Gallaudet on a full scholorship but could not stand to be there because the students made me feel like an outcast because I am more lip-reading reliant and never learn sign Lanuage. I feel totally accepted in the hearing world and yet I do not hear a thing w/o aids. At least I can speak up and be heard thanks to 12 yrs of speech therapies provided by the local school distrat in my area. This is why we have the IDEA act in the first place and parents with any child of any disabilities should become familiar with them.

It already has happened. In New York State, the “New York State School for the Deaf” in Rome, N.Y.- Their admission requirements are in two part.

Part 1, 80 db loss or higher in one ear.

Part 2, “Functionally deaf”.

Functionally Deaf, is just that. A hearing person that isn’t really Deaf. They admitted a student with schizoprenia, and her main character was deaf- even if she is physically hearing.

That’s what’s happening.. Society wants to create an one-stop dumping grounds for multi-handicap students.

The NY School for the deaf in Rome, N.Y., for instance, only has 80 students today, and Deaf culture and ASL is almost completely non-existent, and a lot of students there aren’t truly physically Deaf. Been that way since 1990, that I can remember. Probably before that.

It is the #1 destroyer of schools for the Deaf. I mean, when parents see that it’s an one-stop dumping ground, do you think they’ll (Any parents with common sense) allow their child attend that school?

Unfortunately, there are some parents that doesn’t have common sense- (To fight back) and that’s why this kind of thing continues.

I’m not a member of the deaf community, (my son is deaf in one ear) but the issue seems to me very simple. If the child in question is capable of keeping up with the normal curriculum offered at the deaf school, then it’s in everyone’s interest to place them there. If the child does not have the cognitive or linguistic ability to keep up with a normal curriculum then they belong in a school for handicapped children.
Beyond pre-school, placing a mentally handicapped child in a class with mentally normal children does not serve the interests of the child itself or the other children in the class.

It seems to me that the term “deaf school” itself is a bit of a misnomer, implying that the school is defined by a handicap. It would make more sense to think of them as(and call them) ASL schools, as they are really providing a full education, but in ASL rather than English. Expecting them to take a Down’s Syndrome child who happens to sign is like expecting an international French school to provide education for one whose parents happen to speak French. It’s absurd.

state schools for the deaf are seeing more and more deaf students with other disabilities, and are having to make accommodations for those students anyway. It is a complicated issue. Deaf schools and programs are changing, and we must recognize that, and work together, regardless of which side we are on in the deaf world.

I have some mixed feelings about this too. My parents are deaf and both went to deaf schools in NY.

My grandson has PDDNOS–it’s a form of autism. His hearing is normal but he does not speak. I’ve been able to teach him some signs and it really helps us communicate. He is in the school district preschool program. The teachers do not want to teach him any more signs or let him use signs because they say it will inhibit him from speaking. Boy does that sound familiar! My grandson has cognitive and social delays as well as the lack of speech.

I’d love to see him in a preschool program with other deaf children and at a deaf school but I also understand the concerns being raised. I would not want to see deaf schools lose their identity or to be linked with other disabilities.

I work for one of the schools for the Deaf and, to be honest, I am sick and tired of the hypocrisy. The fact that this school seems more like a mental ward has nothing to do with the children!

It seems that the adults are more concerned with being politically correct than educating children! That’s just crazy. If the Deaf community is going to whine and cry about discrimination, then they shouldn’t be so willing to discriminate
against somebody else. Who gives anyone the right to play God and say this child should not be educated in a Deaf school?

Moreover, it’s just plain ignorant to say that Deaf schools should not be associated with other disabilities. The population of Deaf students ALREADY consists of Deaf students with other disabilities, both physical and mental!
Should we now kick these students out?

Finally, as an African-American, I have experienced more racist acts at this “Deaf institution” than anywhere else I can name. Even worse, the same people who act like they are still living in the 1800’s, the same people who look me up and down like I’m a piece of dirt, the same people who can’t even say (or sign) “Good morning”, are the same people who have the audacity to teach kids who look like me!

Perhaps the problem with Deaf schools is more internal than external. Some Deaf people are so blinded by politics that they have no problem with rudeness, unprofessionalism, discrimination, and dead weight disguised as teachers and administrators.

In short, before you start whining, (especially those who complain about not having enough certified interpreters) look in the mirror. Would you want to serve you?

To: Stopthemadness
Well said!! I am a HOH black female who suffers from progressive hearing loss and I want to learn sign language due to the fact eventually that will be how I and my daughter communicate. I used to read lips, but I need my hearing aids, yet soon they won’t be of used to me. I wasn’t aware of such a conflict, but I agree with the fact that a disability is a disability. No matter what form it’s in. Everyone should have a chance at an education because everyone has that ability & right to learn. Also, it takes only the right attitude for this issue to be resolved. I hope it will get better, but then again, that’s like hoping racism will no longer exist, right?!

There are actually mute people with no other problems. They just can’t produce sound because they lack the Fox2P gene, the gene responsible for the unique vocal structure in humans that allows for speech. These people are cognitively normal, even normal with language other than the fact that they can’t speek it. These people need some way to get an education in the only language they’ll ever be able to speak, sign language.

The example of the girl with dissociative identity disorder (not schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder is multiple personalities) is kind of ridiculous though. What she needs is therapy so she can realize that she’s not more than one person.

I feel that EVERYONE has the right to be able to communicate whether they be deaf, mute, non-verbal, etc. If sign language is their only way to communicate, then what is the problem with them learning it? Hearing and speaking people sign all the time. I’m not saying they need to attend a deaf school, i’m saying they have as much right to learn to communicate by what ever means they are able to communicate. We’re typing… that is communication!!