You Say We Lied About the Job Interview? You Can't Prove It Without the Relay Operator.
Tuesday March 25, 2008
Deaf and hard of hearing jobseekers need to pay CLOSE attention to a battle by a deaf man who was denied a job by a prospective employer, after being told through a relay service that he would be interviewed. What is at stake is this: are relay calls the same as voice calls? First, the man won an Equal Employment Opportunity decision, but the case was not resolved. So he turned to United States District Court. The company asked the court to dismiss the case on the grounds that "the alleged offer of an interview was not admissible as evidence because it is 'hearsay.' " - and the case was dismissed!
What really got my blood to boiling was this paragraph:
The company argued that because the call was made through a relay service, the statement the man read on his TTY was made by the communications assistant (the relay operator), not by the company. Therefore, the relay operator would need to testify about what she heard the company say. The United States District Court agreed.Now the National Association of the Deaf Law Center and a private law firm are appealing the District court's absurd decision to dismiss the case to the United States Court of Appeals, as reported in the NAD's Advocacy blog. The company's point of view is akin to saying that a sign language interpreter must testify about what was said in a job interview! This is one appeal that absolutely MUST be won. Not winning this case would mean employers would have yet another arrow in their quiver to use when they do not want to hire deaf and hard of hearing people!
Related on About.com: Relay Services
Comments
All the reason to start archiving your job hunt calls and saving the VRS calls. The relay ops sometimes pad the discussions and its time to hold the VRS industry accountable for these types of bloopers.
Not matter what kind are you using the VRS. It would nt able to evidence. Quit Richard.. I am just think you like to attention into the deaf community.
Best way to use Ip-Relay Service or TTY Relay service more evidence more than Video RElay Service. It is huge problem with abusive by person from company and lack of evidence if you dont have a TAPE to recorder. VHS is now fade.. DVD might be possible better.
Richard, I am tired of you!
Wow, Richard, instead of blaming the company that actually did the discriminating, you blame someone who is doing their job and following the law. That’s messed up.
That’s obviously a desperate company, and I hope they don’t get away with that flimsy excuse.
That being said, it really wouldn’t matter what you did on your (the user) end would it? Because using that technicality, it would involve having the operator record what was being said, which would not be legal.
When interviewing for a job through the relay, whether it’s TTY or online relay, always print out the dialogue. That is your evidence. The agent’s number is mentioned and according to law, the agent is supposed to say everything that is being interpreted. Any relay agent is supposed to go by integrety and honesty. In the future, when conversing with anyone that is important, print out the dialogue. That is the evidence.
One could technically capture the conversation with the proper recording equipment. Today’s TV cards can accept VP input, provided you have enough hard drive space. This way, you can actually record who the VRS operator was. If you’re not on a VP call, this is a perfect way to make vlogs if you don’t have a webcam or similar.
Saving the video and text can go a long way towards showing that a conversation happened.
Flimsy is it. If deaf/HOH jobseekers have to deal with this kinda junk all the time, then it’s the employers that are acting like idiots, something they’ve been doing for years anyway…
Morons…
Rox’
I agree with you about back off to not accusing the companies .Richard is one of abusive
Exactly I dont like Richard accusing the company.. Just like to his attentions so much.. I think Companies doesnt not always understand about Relay Service. I think the deaf man is trapped and stuck without help him to explained the business.
Sad .. I have not getting a job for 1.5 years
The Glory Not the Prey (Audism)!!!!
Human Resources and Companies knew exactly what they are avoiding the evidences by email or relay as “Hearsay” as political incorrect/ hypocrite.
The article proved that Company knew about ADA laws and found the loopholes. I dealt with job interviews for three years through emails, ip relay and only twice in video relay.
VR won’t do any xxxx with me and protect the company’s rights, instead of my rights or your rights. I refused to use Video Relay because companies knew how to avoid the “black and white” evidences.
I am sorry to being blunt. I have to say ADA, VR, DHHS and EEOE system are piece of C R A P which is not protecting the deaf people rights. We have to face the reality and fight the systems HARD as hell until we win at the end. The Glory Not the Prey (Audism)!
Human Resources and Companies knew exactly what they are avoiding the evidences by email or relay as “Hearsay” as political incorrect/ hypocrite.
I refused to use Video Relay because companies knew how to avoid the “black and white” evidence. I am sorry to being blunt. I have to say ADA, VR, DHHS and EEOE system are piece of C R A P which is not protecting the deaf people rights. We have to face the reality and fight the systems HARD as hell until we win at the end. The Glory Not the Prey (Audism)
Although having a hard-drive wired to your own VP system (from the computer) to record all VP calls is fine but not recommended. Text-based relay transcripts from IP-based relay services are best to use (must be unaltered, unedited, as is) as evidence.
Document everything with your HR/employer during job interview processing.
It would be nice to have a film documentary about how hard or difficult for the D/deaf people to get good-paying jobs by showing them filling out applications, persuading employers or interviews, hoping for the best news and so forth. Just an idea/suggestion.
It might depend on where you live… I’m no lawyer (and my info may be VERY old), but in some states as I understand, it is legal to record a telephone conversation between two people as long as *one* of them (usually the person recording) is aware of it. In other states, both parties *MUST* be aware that the conversation is being recorded *BEFORE* much of it takes place. (And anything said before the other person is made aware of the recording is inadmissable.)
I have no idea where that would put an innocent interpretor, however, since as far as I know, this was based on a conversation between two hearing people.
What is the name of this case? I would like to see the arguments of each side regarding the precedent involving hearsay and interpreters in general.
As a previous paralegal, I know, it is true that in some states only one person must be aware that a conversation is being recorded for it to be legally recorded. At one point in time, emails were not considered valid for “proof” and documents had to be sent via US Mail (only) not FedX, etc. That changed by smart lawyers using careful documentation. Record and print out conversations. I had a lot of trouble with individuals refusing to speak with me when I had to use TTY relay services when working–they didn’t want a third party being privy to their statements. I would like to read the actual court filings, because when new things are tried, there are loopholes that can be used on both sides.
I currently have litigation in NYS Supreme Court and the NYS Appellate division involving: 1) denial of an injury pension for exacerbation of hearing loss, and 2) failure to provide appropriate accommodations which resulted in forced retirement. I am in the appellate division because a judge vacated her own decision on statute of limitations when the City of NY made a motion to renew the statute of limitations arguments four months after the initial decision in my favor and without filing an appeal. The motion to renew was based on a ruling handed down by the appellate division in December 2007, FOUR MONTHS AFTER the judge ruled in my favor, September 2007. I don’t believe in psychic justice. If I lose these cases they will have a very major impact on the Deaf/HOH community yet I have not been able to get any help from NAD because I’m in the NYS court system, not the federal system, as NAD told me. Can someone PLEASE help me get the word out about these cases! I have already spent $50,000 of my own hard-earned money. If I lose, ALL Deaf/HOH people lose as well!
Where and when did this happen? I cannot find any articles on the subject, from either the mainstream press or from NAD. I would appreciate specific information. Thyank you.
To the attention of Elizabeth Goodwin:
You won’t find anything in the press because no one has been interested, although I have certainly tried. My suits involve ADA other violations by the NYC Dep’t. of Ed., the NYC Teachers’ Retirement System and my “union,” the United Federation of Teachers. If you cvan help, please contact me: maxwilbar@verizon. I can give you specific index numbers, etc. I have an attorney in Manhattan who has been handling this for over two years.
Thanks,
Dorothy
I had a similar situation with the local police but kept my relay conversation and printed it out because the person at the police department asked the relay operator to find a way to get rid of me becAUSE I WAS A PAIN IN THE ASS.
I FILED A GRIEVIENCE WITH THE pOLICE DEPARTMENT AND PERSONALLY HANDED IT TO THECOMMANDER AT THE COUNTY HEADQUARTERS.
And attached a copy of the conversation.
Needless to say they jumped like their butts were on fire and met my request otherwise they would be facing a big lawsuit.
Always record your buisness tty conversations.
Doc
As a former relay operator I think this company is completely in the wrong. And hopefully this will not call into question the integrity of the relay system. This system was put into place as aid to aid Equal Access to the deaf community. Relay operators type WHAT THEY HEAR! If the offer of a job interview was not sincere you shouldn’t have voiced it to the caller!!